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	<title>Law School Podcaster</title>
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	<description>Your Guide to Law School</description>
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	<itunes:summary>Your Guide to Law School</itunes:summary>
	<itunes:author>Law School Podcaster</itunes:author>
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	<itunes:subtitle>Your Guide to Law School</itunes:subtitle>
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		<title>Law School Admissions Tip No.3: Extracurricular Activities, Community Service, and Leadership – What Counts?</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/05/15/law-school-admissions-tip-3-extracurricular-activities-community-service-and-leadership-what-counts/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/05/15/law-school-admissions-tip-3-extracurricular-activities-community-service-and-leadership-what-counts/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 16:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[The Top 15 Things Every Law School Applicant Should Know is a series that will teach you the ins and outs of successful law school applications. Stay tuned for the remaining elements. This week we’ll discuss the importance of extracurricular activities in the law school admissions process Part of your strategy for applying to law school [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em><strong><a rel="attachment wp-att-5610" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/05/15/law-school-admissions-tip-3-extracurricular-activities-community-service-and-leadership-what-counts/extracurricular-activity-tip3-2/"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-5610" title="Extracurricular-Activity-Tip3" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Extracurricular-Activity-Tip31.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="150" /></a></strong></em><br />
<em><strong>The Top 15 Things Every Law School Applicant Should Know</strong> is a series that will teach you the ins and outs of successful law school applications. Stay tuned for the remaining elements. This week we’ll discuss the importance of extracurricular activities in the law school admissions process</em></p>
<p>Part of your strategy for applying to law school should be figuring out what makes you stand apart from the crowd. The numbers are the numbers, but what you do outside of school and how you spend your free time is uniquely your own. And how you present this information is just as important as the information itself. Here’s what you need to know.</p>
<p>In its purest form, law is still seen as a “helping profession,” so having a strong track record with involvement in the world beyond the classroom is important. Hopefully your extracurricular activities include some level of community service and volunteerism, but if not, you might want to consider adding that to your “strategy” for applying to law school. Volunteering for something related to the legal field, i.e. Court Appointed Special Advocates (CASA) or Legal Aid, for example, is a great way not only to demonstrate service, but will also give you a real world glimpse into what it is like to be an attorney. But the reality is that any kind of community service is valuable, so choose something that is meaningful to you and to which you can make a genuine commitment.</p>
<p>Other extracurricular activities that show your involvement with your school and community can include sports, hobbies, clubs, and other activities. Again, if you have written law related articles for your school’s newspaper – great! But if not, your extracurricular activities will give the adcom an idea of who you are and what is important to you. The best kind of extracurricular activities are the ones that are most meaningful to you and the ones in which you have taken a leadership role. You don’t need fifteen different activities, just a few that you really care about. Highlighting your authentic interest in and commitment to these activities will be an important part of your application. If you are uncertain how to go about doing this, <a href="http://www.accepted.com/aboutus/AboutUs.aspx">admissions consultants</a> can help you figure out how to best frame this part of your application so that you stand out from the crowd. It’s all part of your overall strategy to convey to your readers who you are, the causes that you care about, and what you can bring to the school to which you are applying. By making sure that you demonstrate this commitment to the world around you, you are setting yourself apart from the rest of the pack.</p>
<p id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179562"><em id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179561">By Catherine Cook, an <a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179447" href="http://accepted.com/" target="_blank">Accepted.com</a> admissions consultant, published author and former Duke Law admissions officer. <a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179564" rel="nofollow" href="http://accepted.com/" target="_blank">Accepted.com</a>, the premier admissions consultancy and essay editing company, has helped applicants around the world gain admissions to over 450+ top schools since 1994.</em></p>
<p><em id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179569">This blog post originally appeared on </em><a href="http://blog.accepted.com/2012/02/28/law-school-application-timing/">Accepted Admissions Consulting Blog</a>.</p>
<p>�<br />
<em><a href="http://blog.accepted.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/logo-small-for-SF.jpg"><img title="Accepted.com" src="http://blog.accepted.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/logo-small-for-SF.jpg" alt="Accepted.com" width="111" height="61" /></a></em></p>
<p><em></em><em>Accepted.com ~ Helping You Write Your Best</em></p>
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		<title>Law School Admissions Tip #2: Timing is Everything, and Earlier is Better</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/05/08/law-school-admissions-tip-2-timing-is-everything-and-earlier-is-better/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/05/08/law-school-admissions-tip-2-timing-is-everything-and-earlier-is-better/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 11:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ The Top 15 Things Every Applicant to Law School Applicant Should Know is a series that will teach you the ins and outs of successful law school applications. Stay tuned for the remaining elements. This week we’ll discuss the importance of timing in the law school admissions process. My brother’s favorite saying is, “Go early [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-5583" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/05/08/law-school-admissions-tip-2-timing-is-everything-and-earlier-is-better/time-to-apply-to-law-school-150x150-tip2/"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-5583" title="Time-to-Apply-to-Law-School-150x150 TIP2" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Time-to-Apply-to-Law-School-150x150-TIP2.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="150" /></a> <em><strong>The Top 15 Things Every Applicant to Law School Applicant Should Know</strong> is a series that will teach you the ins and outs of successful law school applications. Stay tuned for the remaining elements. This week we’ll discuss the importance of timing in the law school admissions process.<br />
</em></p>
<p>My brother’s favorite saying is, “Go early and go high.” This is the way he enjoys his hiking – pure, pristine, and in solitude. It is how he best appreciates the experience. In the case of law school (and really, all undergraduate and graduate) admissions, the ancillary sentiment is, “Write well and submit early.” There are several reasons for this, and here they are.</p>
<p>1.  While the deadlines for law schools vary (for the class beginning in the fall of 2013, Harvard’s deadline is December 1, 2012 whereas Santa Clara’s is February 1, 2013), it makes sense to work on your applications in parallel and try to submit more or less all at once. You will most likely be using the same, perhaps slightly modified, personal statement for every school, so there is no reason to drag out the process. Who wants to spend six months stressing out over it? Just get it done.</p>
<p>2.   Many schools will fill their class on a rolling basis, meaning if they read your application in September and they like it, you could be admitted in October or November. If you know you want to go to law school and you know you want to go the following fall, wouldn’t you rather start thinking about your options sooner rather than later? This gives you plenty of time to make your decisions, explore financial aid and other methods of funding your law school education, and preparing for this new chapter in your life. In addition, there is generally more financial aid available earlier in the application cycle than later, so your chances of obtaining assistance is greater the earlier you apply.</p>
<p>3.   Finally, and perhaps most importantly, part of the application equation is considering your audience. Admissions committees are made up of real people, who read every single application submitted. In a typical year, Berkeley receives 6000-8000 applications. Someone has to read them all, and it stands to reason that the enthusiasm the readers have for the first 3000 or so applications may wane a bit by the time they get to the last 500 or so. It’s basic human nature. Are you more alert and attentive at the beginning of a lecture than at the end? Are you more engaged when you start reading the New York Times, or after you’ve spent two hours poring over it? You want your application to land on the adcom member’s desk when they are fresh and excited, not when they are spent and exhausted.</p>
<p>We know that the process can be intimidating and it can be tempting to procrastinate. Professional <a href="http://www.accepted.com/aboutus/AboutUs.aspx">admissions consultants </a>can help you organize your thoughts, brainstorm about your personal statement, and assist you with getting your applications submitted in a timely manner. The earlier, the better!</p>
<p id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179562"><em id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179561">By Catherine Cook, an <a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179447" href="http://accepted.com/" target="_blank">Accepted.com</a> admissions consultant, published author and former Duke Law admissions officer. <a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179564" rel="nofollow" href="http://accepted.com/" target="_blank">Accepted.com</a>, the premier admissions consultancy and essay editing company, has helped applicants around the world gain admissions to over 450+ top schools since 1994.</em></p>
<p><em id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179569">This blog post originally appeared on </em><a href="http://blog.accepted.com/2012/02/28/law-school-application-timing/">Accepted Admissions Consulting Blog</a>.</p>
<p>�<br />
<em><a href="http://blog.accepted.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/logo-small-for-SF.jpg"><img title="Accepted.com" src="http://blog.accepted.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/logo-small-for-SF.jpg" alt="Accepted.com" width="111" height="61" /></a></em></p>
<p><em> </em><em>Accepted.com ~ Helping You Write Your Best</em></p>
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		<title>The Dumb Kids Didn’t Get the Message? Whoa, there.</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/30/the-dumb-kids-didnt-get-the-message-woah-there/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/30/the-dumb-kids-didnt-get-the-message-woah-there/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Mary Adkins, Manhattan LSAT Teacher. Manhattan LSAT is a leading LSAT-exclusive test preparation provider. If you don’t know much about the LSAT, you can read the Manhattan LSAT intro guide or attend one of the free workshops (available in NYC and Live Online). You may have heard the news. At the end of a decade [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em>By Mary Adkins, Manhattan LSAT Teacher. <a href="http://www.manhattanlsat.com/" target="_blank">Manhattan LSAT</a> is a leading LSAT-exclusive test preparation provider. If you don’t know much about the LSAT, you can <a href="http://www.manhattanlsat.com/master-lsat.cfm">read the Manhattan LSAT intro guide</a> or attend one of the free workshops (available in <a href="http://www.manhattanlsat.com/new-york-classes.cfm">NYC</a> and <a href="http://www.manhattanlsat.com/online-classes.cfm">Live Online</a>).</em></strong></p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-5634" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/30/the-dumb-kids-didnt-get-the-message-woah-there/law-office-manhattanlsat-2/"><img class="alignright size-large wp-image-5634" title="law office ManhattanLSAT" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/law-office-ManhattanLSAT1-300x199.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="199" /></a>You may have heard the news. At the end of a decade of soaring law school application numbers, they’ve finally started plummeting. Over the past two years, there has been a notable dip in the number of people taking the LSAT and, accordingly, the number applying to law school. Interestingly, it turns out that the greatest decrease has been among test-takers <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/the-wrong-people-have-stopped-applying-to-law-school/255685/" target="_blank">scoring highest on the test</a>. The smallest change has been among students scoring at the low end. In other words, the potential 170s are mostly the ones deciding to forego law school. The potential 150s (and under) are still showing up.</p>
<p>I have been troubled over the past couple of weeks by the chatter about why this may be the case. The popular consensus that has emerged: the smart kids are “getting the memo” that law jobs are few and far between, so they’re moving on to do other things. Then there the dumb kids, who just don’t get it. They’re still applying.</p>
<p>This speculation is pretty myopic, and I’m sort of awed by how readily the <a href="http://abovethelaw.com/2012/04/if-you-are-still-applying-to-law-school-you-might-be-an-idiot/" target="_blank">authors</a> who suggest it—<a href="http://thecareerist.typepad.com/thecareerist/2012/04/law-school-news-smart-applicants.html" target="_blank">not only</a> at The Atlantic and Above the Law—seem to assume that most people decide to go law school based on identical professional goals (with some minor lip service to the “less affluent” crowd, as if it’s at the fringe): super high-paying, big city, highly competitive.</p>
<p>No doubt that jobs at firms in major cities are hard to come by, have become harder to come by, and are easier (as in, perhaps possible) to come by if you’ve graduated from a top school, for which you need a high LSAT score. Sure. But there are many, many people who don’t plan or want to live in Chicago, New York, or Boston. For these folks, local and/or state law schools ranked below the top 50, or even100, are more than sufficient to obtain JDs and set up shop.</p>
<p>“Small town” lawyers and the lower-tier schools that train them are not the outliers of the legal profession, the minority. They are the majority.</p>
<p>I can think of five friends offhand who went to law schools proximate to where we grew up in South Carolina (and all to schools outside the top 100, by the way). What are these people doing now? They are practicing law near or in our hometown.</p>
<p>Maybe the reason the Potential 170s aren’t taking the LSAT isn’t because they’re picking up on something that the 150s-and-under are missing. Maybe they just want something different. The Potential 170s want Ropes &amp; Gray or Cravath or to run Legal Aid, and in this economic climate, they make the reasonable assessment that for them, law school isn’t a great bet. Meanwhile, a healthy number of the150s have more flexibility in terms of what schools they’re willing to go to and/or what scores they need to get there.</p>
<p>The reason the decreasing number of applications seems to be skewed by LSAT score has, I imagine, more to do with people’s varying values than it does the ignorance of low scorers. Maybe they’re not missing the message; it’s just a message that doesn’t apply to them.</p>
<div><em>This blog post originally appeared on the <a href="http://www.manhattanlsat.com/blog/" target="_blank">Manhattan LSAT Blog</a>.</em></div>
<div><img title="Logo_Web" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Logo_Web2-85x84.png" alt="" width="85" height="84" /></div>
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		<title>Weighing The Value of a Challenging Class, a Low Grade &amp; Some Time Off</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/26/weighing-the-value-of-a-challenging-class-a-low-grade-some-time-off/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/26/weighing-the-value-of-a-challenging-class-a-low-grade-some-time-off/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 02:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Here&#8217;s a recent inquiry from one of our listeners and some info from our podcasts that may be helpful:  I am a college senior with one semester left before I graduate. I am currently studying for the LSAT. This semester I chose to take a logic class and while I am learning the material, the class is difficult and I [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a recent inquiry from one of our listeners and some info from our podcasts that may be helpful: </p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-5536" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/26/weighing-the-value-of-a-challenging-class-a-low-grade-some-time-off/q-and-a-7/"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-5536" title="q and a" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/q-and-a1-200x206.png" alt="" width="200" height="206" /></a></p>
<p><em>I am a college senior with one semester left before I graduate. I am currently studying for the LSAT. This semester I chose to take a logic class and while I am learning the material, the class is difficult and I already know it&#8217;s going to lower my GPA. Therefore I&#8217;m thinking of holding off on law school right after I graduate. How highly do law schools look at GPA&#8217;s if an individual takes time off from school to concentrate on employment or professional experience?</em></p>
<p>Not surprisingly, some of our guests, including admissions deans from top law schools, have offered their insight on these points.  So, why not hear (or read below) what they&#8217;ve had to say on these topics.  If you want to hear from our experts directly, just click on the podcast links below.</p>
<p>•  <a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2010/11/09/mitigating-weaknesses-in-your-law-school-application-5/">Mitigating Weaknesses in Your Law School Application: Identifying and Fixing Weak Spots</a>.  In this segment, Dean Rita Jones, of Boston College Law School, emphasized the importance of taking challenging undergraduate courses and said that too many easy classes are a potential weakness in your candidacy.  “It could be a weakness if you’ve taken too many intro-level courses later in your college years, maybe having several jobs on your résumé but no apparent advancement in responsibility or position, lack of demonstrated leadership in co-curricular and extracurricular activities, no demonstration of a long-term commitment to any one endeavor. These are things that I would look for. I don’t know that candidates always think [about] that, but I think it’s something to consider.”</p>
<p><em>How should you deal with a low grade in a particular class or a weaker GPA?</em>  Dean Jones had the following advice: “You can retake classes. That won’t raise a poor grade or change a GPA, but it might show you’re moving in a better direction. . . I would not suggest retaking a class to, say, boost the GPA unless the low grade was really due to not understanding the subject and that’s something you really want to know. I mean, if it works, if it’s important for you to really have that knowledge that you did not get from the class, it might well be worth repeating it. But I would suggest repeating it just for purposes of boosting the GPA.”</p>
<p>• <a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/01/12/whats-your-major/" target="_blank">What&#8217;s Your Major? The Courses That Help You Get In &amp; Succeed in Law School</a> is another segment tackling this issue.  Sarah Zearfoss, Senior Assistant Dean for Admissions,<a href="http://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestudents/Pages/default.aspx" target="_blank">University of Michigan Law School</a> says admissions officers like to see curricula that is both deep and broad. “You should  certainly be trying to take challenging courses in whatever is your chosen core field, to show that you can perform at a very high academic level. And then it’s also important though that you branch out and test yourself in areas outside your comfort zone. So classes that give you experience [such] as close reading of texts, detailed analysis, logical reasoning, and extensive writing are always helpful.”</p>
<p>In comparing different majors in the admissions process, Ann Perry, Associate Dean for Admissions,<a href="http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective" target="_blank"> The University of Chicago Law School</a> reviews the entire application, and discerns how the student performs in their major fields. “So, it’s looking at their transcripts, seeing what courses they took. Did they challenge themselves within their major, meaning they took upper level classes beyond maybe what was required? I like to see some writing classes — and even hard science majors sometimes take writing classes — because I think that’s a core skill that it would be nice to come with for law school, even though you take a whole year of legal writing. So it’s evaluating that, but also here’s where letters of recommendation become helpful, especially when they’re from a professor who the student had, who can really kind of talk about this student’s academic ability.”</p>
<p>• <a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2010/09/22/nontraditional-law-school-applicants-students/">Nontraditional Law School Applicants &amp; Students:  Tips to Help You Apply, Find the Right Fit &amp; Succeed</a>, focuses on the value of taking time off after earning your undergraduate degree and before starting law school. The show offers some perspective on how admissions deans view applicants who take time off.</p>
<p>For example, Frank Motley, Assistant Dean for Admissions, <a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/degrees/jd/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a> said that when he started at Indiana in 1977, most people applying had not taken any time off. Increasingly, students are taking time off to work before coming to law school as is often seen with business schools.“Well, business schools require that students have some work experience because they find that they become better students and add more to the classroom experience. While law schools haven’t required that, I think that people are seeing one or two years experience does add to their maturity and makes the law school experience much more relevant.”</p>
<p>Johann Lee, Assistant Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, <a href="http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissions/">Northwestern University Law School</a> adds that nontraditional students tend to have time management skills, also a great help. “If you’ve been holding a very competitive complex job, then you learn time management skills. You learn really good time management skills. And so I think when you enter the law school environment, having to juggle a lot – juggle your class work, extracurricular, co-curricular activities, I think old students tend, to me and historically, they seem to do well because they have the ability to juggle a lot of things and do a lot of things effectively.”</p>
<p>Also in this show, <a href="http://www.veritasprep.com/law-school/" target="_blank">Veritas Prep&#8217;s</a> Adam Hoff explains that law school is a numbers game — until it isn’t.“Schools are not able to just disregard the LSAT or disregard the GPA. Even if they think those markers are not as appropriate for a nontraditional or an older applicant. But what they are able to do is say, look, we think that the rich experience this person has, we think their nontraditional approach, is going to add so much value to the experience for other students. They’re going to bring so much diversity and spice to the classrooms that we’re willing to absorb the hit on this particular LSAT score.”</p>
<p>Listen to these shows to get more information on this topic!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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		<title>Renee C. Post Associate Dean for Admissions and Financial Aid , Penn Law</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/19/renee-c-post-associate-dean/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/19/renee-c-post-associate-dean/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Dean Interview]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/19/renee-c-post-associate-dean-for-admissions-and-financial-aid%e2%80%a8-penn-law/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>"Academic reputation and career prospects are two vital elements when selecting a law school, but too often applicants overlook school 'fit..."</p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<div style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.admissionsdean.com"><img class="clear size-full wp-image-634  aligncenter" title="admissiosdeanlogo" src="http://lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/admissiosdeanlogo2.png" alt="" width="354" height="61" /></a></div>
<div>The following interview is provided by <a href="http://www.admissionsdean.com" target="_blank">AdmissionsDean.com</a>, a totally free social networking site that allows law school applicants to anonymously track one another through the current admissions cycle so they can better assess their own chances of getting accepted.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Renee_Post_photo_2009_medium.jpeg"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-5533" title="Renee_Post_photo_2009_medium" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Renee_Post_photo_2009_medium.jpeg" alt="" width="285" height="190" /></a>Dean Post has been the Associate Dean for Admissions and Financial Aid at the Law School since 2007. Prior to that, she served as both Associate Director and Director of <a href="http://www.admissionsdean.com/law_schools/university-of-pennsylvania-law-school">Penn Law&#8217;s</a> Admissions Office and was a consultant for a national admissions consulting company. Dean Post earned her M.S.Ed. at the University of Pennsylvania&#8217;s Graduate School of Education and her B.A. from the University of Pittsburgh. She currently is serving on the Finance and Legal Affairs Committee of the Law School Admissions Council. She has been a panelist on countless admissions panels including Access to Higher Education, Financing a Legal Education, and Retention Issues in Higher Education.</div>
<table class="interview_table">
<tbody>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">I know that this is your busy season so I really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions that might be of interest to prospective applicants.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">I&#8217;m happy to do it.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Last year, Penn Law awarded grants and scholarships to almost 40% of its 1L class.  What process do students need to go through to receive scholarship/grant consideration?  What factors do you consider when awarding scholarships?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Penn offers both need-based grants and merit-based scholarships. Penn Law has a very generous need-based aid program that meets 100% of a student’s identified need. Students who want to be considered for need-based grants must complete the Need Access Application and the FAFSA for Penn to determine eligibility. For merit-based scholarships, we nominate students based on their admissions applications.  Nominees are chosen primarily on their academic credentials, but we also consider non-academic factors such as leadership, community service, extra-curricular involvement, and work experience. Nominees may be asked to submit additional essays.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Penn Law describes itself as &#8220;THE leader in cross-disciplinary legal education.&#8221; Can you explain exactly what that means to your students and how your approach may differ from other schools at the top of the first tier?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Penn Law recognizes that as the world becomes increasingly complex, the boundaries of traditional legal issues tend to blur. Our students are savvy – they seek out exposure across disciplines because they know that it will prepare them to tackle the difficult and complicated issues they’ll encounter in their careers. For example, many Penn Law students enroll in joint-degree or certificate programs. Students may also choose to take up to four classes toward their JD at other schools in the University. Even within the traditional legal curriculum, students easily gain cross-disciplinary exposure. With 70% of Penn Law faculty holding advanced degrees in fields in addition to law – including 50% with a PhD in that additional field – it’s nearly impossible for Penn students not to learn the law from multiple perspectives.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Your school has a reputation of remarkable collegiality among its students.  How does Penn foster a non-competitive environment, especially in these difficult economic times when so much is riding on students&#8217; grades?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">We are very deliberate about making Penn Law a collegial place. The Law School does not class-rank students; we assign interview slots during on-campus recruiting by lottery, not grades; we limit each year’s class size to just 250 students, so professors know their students and students know each other; all faculty, students and staff are located in four buildings whose intersections form an interior courtyard. Equally important, our collegiality is sustained by our students, who self-select to study the law where the support they receive is as great as the challenges they will confront.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Once accepted, what is the biggest surprise Penn students encounter in law school &#8212; what are most students truly not expecting from the law school experience?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Penn Law students consistently mention how surprised they are by the culture at the Law School. The Law School is academically rigorous and intense, as many would expect, but what really strikes new students is that it’s also collaborative and collegial. This is a rare combination, and it makes Penn a great place to study law.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Take us through Penn&#8217;s admissions review process.  How does Penn evaluate a candidate&#8217;s undergraduate GPA, LSAT score report, personal statement, letters of recommendation, and other relevant factors?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Outside of our Early Decision program, we review applications based on the order they are completed. Every file is read by at least two members of the Admissions Committee. Often, a file is sent for a third, and even a fourth, read. While academic excellence is important in the evaluation process, we consider each application holistically. We do not apply numeric cutoffs for the LSAT or GPA. Instead, we read each individual file, including letters of recommendation, personal statement, supplemental essay(s), and resume, to gain a full picture of each applicant.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">If your son or daughter was applying to law school, what advice would you give him or her about choosing a law school?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Visit the schools to which you plan to apply. Academic reputation and career prospects are two vital elements when selecting a law school, but too often applicants overlook school “fit”. It is important for applicants to think about the size of the school, the student body and school culture, and the geographic location. Can they envision themselves there for the next three years? If applicants are not able to visit the schools, they should conduct extensive research – both through the internet and by talking with members of the legal profession.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">How much weight do you place on an applicant&#8217;s LSAT score?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">An applicant’s LSAT score is one factor among many that we consider in making an admissions decision. Since we look at the LSAT score in the context of the particular application, the importance of the score varies according to the nature of each application. Penn Law does not apply a numeric cutoff for the LSAT or use an index number to sort or otherwise evaluate applicants.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">How does Penn view multiple LSAT scores &#8212; especially if there is a relatively large discrepancy between the two scores?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Our interpretation rests squarely on the shoulders of the applicant. If an applicant provides the Committee with a reasonable explanation for the discrepancy, the Committee is likely to place more consideration on the higher score.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Do you give any preference to applicants who attended Penn undergrad?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">No. That said, Penn is an excellent undergraduate institution and students consistently report extremely positive feedback about their experience there. Thus, we see many extraordinary Penn undergraduates apply to and matriculate at the Law School.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">What about applicants whose parents might have attended Penn Law?  Do legacy candidates receive any special preference?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">No.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Do you find one undergraduate major better preparation for law school than another? For instance, many undergraduate institutions offer a Pre-Law major &#8212; does Penn look more or less favorably on Pre-Law majors when deciding whether to offer admission?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">The major by itself is not as important as the breadth and depth of the undergraduate training and the course progression. Regardless of the major, students should be certain to take a few classes that allow them to develop research and writing skills, which are vital for law school. Penn Law values diversity in its broadest sense. Indeed, this includes academic training.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">What are the most common mistakes applicants make on their applications?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">In addition to the obvious mistakes such as sending the wrong essay to the wrong school or submitting essays with grammatical or typographical errors, some applicants do not approach their applications holistically. For example, candidates may not address discrepancies in their applications such as poor academic performance during one semester of their undergraduate career, or may vaguely list experience on a resume without explaining it adequately. The applicant should put him or herself in the Admissions Committee’s shoes. Do any discrepancies stand out? If so, be sure to address them. It is important to provide complete answers to any questions the Committee may have about one’s candidacy.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Do you have any advice for students when getting letters of recommendations?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Applicants should provide their recommenders with as much information as possible, such as an academic paper, current resume, and a clear explanation of why they wish to pursue a legal education. Applicants should also think strategically about who they choose to write their letters of recommendation. If applying directly from college or a year or so out of school, candidates should submit at least two letters from faculty members. If a candidate has been out of school for a number of years, professional letters are more helpful. In any event, students should seek out recommenders who know them well and can speak directly to their academic and/or professional skills and strengths. At Penn, we will consider as many as four letters of recommendation in our evaluation process. This allows applicants some flexibility to select recommenders who can speak to different facets of an applicant’s background: academic, professional, or community leadership to name a few.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">What does it mean if an applicant is placed on the waitlist, and can you offer any strategies for getting off that list?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Each year Penn Law receives over 6,000 applications for our first-year class of approximately 250 students. We understand that being wait-listed is not the applicant’s first choice, but in recent years we have admitted wait-listed candidates. Applicants who are wait-listed should examine their applications for holes or inconsistencies and supplement their applications where appropriate. Examples include additional letters of recommendation, additional essays, and updated resumes.  Candidates should also keep the Committee apprised of their plans as the summer months progress.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Given the current economy, what trends are you seeing in law school applications?  Do you expect the upcoming admissions cycle to be particularly heavy?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Applications to Penn Law increased 7% last year. While it is too early in this year’s admissions process to make a definitive forecast, indicators such as a high number of LSAT examinees and increased attendance at recruiting events point to an increase in applications this year.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Do you give &#8220;extra credit&#8221; to an applicant who tells you that he/she will accept an offer from your school should they receive an offer?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Many applicants make their enthusiasm well-known to the Admissions Committee. This enthusiasm certainly does not guarantee admission, but letting the Committee know a sincere and specific interest in the school never hurts.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Since the admissions process has become so competitive, we&#8217;re seeing more and more students transferring &#8212; in fact, Penn accepted 29 transfer students in the last cycle.  This hasn&#8217;t always been the case. Do you have any opinions about why there is such an interest in transferring these days?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Some students cite a change in academic or professional interests; others simply hope to attend a school with a more impressive reputation.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">What factors do you consider when deciding whether to accept a transfer student?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">We employ the same holistic approach we employ when evaluating first year applications to transfer applications; all factors of the application are reviewed and considered. That said, we place particular emphasis on transfer applicants’ performance in the first year of law school and the strength of the academic program from which they seek to transfer. With that in mind, we require two letters of recommendation, preferably from law school professors. We also look for a well-crafted personal statement outlining a candidate’s reasons for wanting to transfer and a detailed resume, in addition to the usual application components.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Are there any schools that seem to consistently send one or two transfer students to Penn every year?</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">The schools from which we draw are very diverse and vary year to year.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="question">
<td><span class="interview_box_blue">AD</span></td>
<td class="myriad">Thanks again for your time.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="answer">
<td><span class="interview_box_gray">RP</span></td>
<td class="myriad">My pleasure.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
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		<title>Law School Admissions Tip #1: Develop Your Law School Admissions Strategy</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/17/law-school-admissions-tip-1-develop-your-law-school-admissions-strategy/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/17/law-school-admissions-tip-1-develop-your-law-school-admissions-strategy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Top 15 Things Every Law School Applicant Should Know is a series that will teach you the ins and outs of successful law school applications. Stay tuned for the remaining elements. This week starts with “Law School Admissions Strategy.”   Numbers and stats for law school admission are important – certainly more so even [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="post-info"><a rel="attachment wp-att-5495" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/17/law-school-admissions-tip-1-develop-your-law-school-admissions-strategy/chess-strategy-150x150-2/"><img class="alignright size-full wp-image-5495" title="Chess-Strategy-150x150" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Chess-Strategy-150x1501.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="150" /></a></div>
<div class="post-info"><a href="http://blog.accepted.com/tag/law-school-admissions-advice/" target="_blank">The Top 15 Things Every Law School Applicant Should Know</a><em> is a series that will teach you the ins and outs of successful law school applications. Stay tuned for the remaining elements. This week starts with “Law School Admissions Strategy.”</em></div>
<div class="post-info"><em> </em></div>
<div class="entry-content">
<p>Numbers and stats for law school admission are important – certainly more so even than for undergraduate – but the right components of your application can make all the difference in the world.</p>
<p>Does it seem like you just finished your undergraduate applications for admission, and now here you are applying to law school? Or maybe you did your undergraduate more than a few years ago, and are returning to law school after an <a href="http://www.accepted.com/law/AgesandStages.aspx#_Older_Applicants" target="_blank">academic hiatus</a>. Either way, it’s important to know what admissions committees are looking for BEFORE you starting working on your application. You need a strategy.</p>
<p>The first thing to know is that the numbers that schools list on their web sites are real. Yale really does look for an LSAT score in the mid 170’s, whereas Tulane is happy with a 160. So look at the web sites of the schools in which you are interested, and make your list accordingly. Of course, you should always reach for the stars by including a couple of reach schools, but you also need to be realistic.</p>
<p>When making your list of schools, other things to consider include location, and whether or not you are able and willing to move to attend law school. For someone in their early 20’s, this often is not an issue, whereas if you are returning to law school a little later in life, you might be settled where you are and therefore are not able to relocate. From a financial point of view, the local school may also be more affordable.</p>
<p>At least as important as location and affordability is focusing on what kind of law you want to study, what you want to do with the degree, and which programs will therefore be the best fit. Are you interested in corporate law or do you see yourself working for LegalAid after graduation? Different schools have different specialties. Do your research and make sure that the schools you are including on your list match your interests.</p>
<p>Once you have done your due diligence and figured out where you can reasonably hope to be admitted, which schools have the best program for your interests, and which two or three schools fit into the “reach” category, then it is time to assess the potential strengths and weaknesses of your application. Suppose you have an excellent LSAT score, but your GPA suffered your junior year, thereby bringing your overall GPA down. Instead of seeing this as only a weakness, you need to make sure that you frame this in the best possible way. (Our professional <a href="http://www.accepted.com/services/lawservices.aspx" target="_blank">consultants and editors</a> can help you.)</p>
<p>After assessing and summarizing your professional, extracurricular, and <a href="http://www.accepted.com/law/Extra.aspx" target="_blank">community service activities</a>, the single most important part of your application is your personal statement. This is your opportunity to make your story come to life and give the admissions committee an authentic look into who you are. Make sure you dedicate the appropriate time and energy into this essay. We’ll cover the personal statement in a later post, but if you want to get started immediately or simply want individual advice, consider hiring a <a href="http://www.accepted.com/services/lawservices.aspx" target="_blank">law school admissions consultant</a> to guide you.</p>
<p>For now, figure out your strategy, make a plan, and get started. You’re ready!</p>
<p id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179562"><em id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179561">By Catherine Cook, an <a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179447" href="http://accepted.com/" target="_blank">Accepted.com</a> admissions consultant, published author and former Duke Law admissions officer. <a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179564" rel="nofollow" href="http://accepted.com/" target="_blank">Accepted.com</a>, the premier admissions consultancy and essay editing company, has helped applicants around the world gain admissions to over 450+ top schools since 1994.</em></p>
<p><em id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179569">This blog post originally appeared on </em><a id="yui_3_2_0_6_1333665879179573" rel="nofollow" href="http://blog.accepted.com/2012/03/29/mba-school-visits-start-off-right/" target="_blank">Accepted Admissions Consulting Blog. </a><br />
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<p><em><span class="full-image-block ssNonEditable"><span> </span></span>Accepted.com ~ Helping You Write Your Best</em></p>
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		<title>Beyond &#8216;Thinking Like a Lawyer&#8217; &#8211; New Podcast Looks at Changes in Law School Curriculum</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/04/beyond-thinking-like-a-lawyer-new-podcast-looks-at-changes-in-law-school-curriculum/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/04/beyond-thinking-like-a-lawyer-new-podcast-looks-at-changes-in-law-school-curriculum/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 01:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Should we anticipate saying good-bye to the traditional law school classroom experience, famously depicted in movies, television and shared by legions of 1Ls who have endured it while learning to &#8220;think like a lawyer?&#8221; Not quite, though there&#8217;s a lot of talk these days about changes in the legal profession — and how law schools should respond.  The debate centers [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-5379" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/04/beyond-thinking-like-a-lawyer-new-podcast-looks-at-changes-in-law-school-curriculum/professor-kingsfield-the-paper-chase/"><img class="size-medium wp-image-5379 alignleft" title="professor kingsfield the paper chase" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/professor-kingsfield-the-paper-chase-200x134.jpg" alt="" width="200" height="134" /></a></p>
<p>Should we anticipate saying good-bye to the traditional law school classroom experience, famously depicted in movies, television and shared by legions of 1Ls who have endured it while learning to &#8220;think like a lawyer?&#8221; Not quite, though there&#8217;s a lot of talk these days about changes in the legal profession — and how law schools should respond.  The debate centers on the value and relevance of the traditional law school curriculum and is prompted in large part by the dismal economy in recent years, the shedding of tens of thousands of legal services jobs, and the changing demands of legal employers showing an increased reluctance to underwrite the costs of training recent law graduates.</p>
<p>According to a January <a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202538352545&amp;What_is_law_school_for_anyway&amp;slreturn=1" target="_blank">post</a> in The National Law Journal, the annual meeting of the Association of American Law Schools in Washington a few months ago drew nearly 3,000 educators and many law schools have some type of plan for curriculum innovation﻿.  These include &#8220;﻿﻿﻿﻿a wider array of clinics, harnessing technology in simulations and student projects, and teaching transactional lawyering skills.&#8221;  And, more and more law professors are focusing scholarship on ways law school﻿s should respond to the shifts in the profession.</p>
<p>The question is what balance should be struck between traditional law school curriculum (steeped in theory and books) and a more practice-based skills development.  Should curriculum changes be incremental &#8211; and include modest changes such as additional clinics and externships? Or should there be more sweeping reforms &#8211; where subjects like executive management, business skills, legal technology and behavioral management are taught?</p>
<p>Law School Podcaster is devoting an entire podcast to this important topic.  Our latest show, <strong><em><a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/podcasts/EP33-LawSchoolChanges.mp3" target="_blank">Beyond Thinking Like a Lawyer: What Changes in Legal Education Mean for Students</a></em></strong> features the following leading experts on this topic:</p>
<ul>
<li>Paul Schiff Berman, Dean and Robert Kramer Research Professor at Law, <a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">George Washington University Law School</a></li>
<li>William Henderson, Professor of Law and Val Nolan Faculty Fellow; Director, Center on the Global Legal Profession, <a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a></li>
<li>Nancy Rappoport, Gordon Silver Professor, <a href="http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html" target="_blank">University of Nevada Las Vegas William S. Boyd School of Law</a></li>
<li>Patrick J. Lynch, Co-Founder &amp; Policy Director, <a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">Law School Transparency</a></li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">Law School Transparency’s</a> Co-Founder and Policy Director, Patrick J. Lynch, says increased skills training is something every law school’s looking at, to improve the services they offer. “I think for many that where they’re going to come down on that is that they have to provide some improvement in the way that they actually train people to practice law. A good example of that is the rise of solo practitioner sort of prep courses, where they prepare people on the chance that the only option to enter the legal profession is to hang out the shingle, that schools are now offering better training, so that people can actually do that right from the get-go. And I think that’s a great example of a really practical skill training method that is probably very necessary at a lot of law schools to do. I think that that sort of thing, it can be very helpful, I think, looking at… we’ve spoken with a number of law schools that are working more with local attorneys to develop mentorship programs, and actually get students very early on during law school really socializing and getting to know and pursuing internships and legal work with lawyers in the community, which I think is a great way to sort of supplement the traditional in-course curriculum with the type of networking and skills training that you really need to succeed in this profession.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a> Professor William D. Henderson says additional skills training can give law school students a broader scope for future positions. “I think that there is some usefulness towards skill training in terms of legal writing, some litigation-type training, some transactional drafting-type training. But I also think it needs to go beyond that to focus on collaborative skills, teamwork-type skills, interpersonal skills, communication, effectiveness, trust building, listening skills. I think that these are more transferable and are going to allow law school graduates to be effective in a variety of professional contexts, not just litigation-associated or transaction-associated at a major law firm.”</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t expect law schools to completely abandon any time soon the core curriculum that has been the mainstay of earning your law degree.  Most law schools are just beginning to look at adding pilot programs and new opportunities for students to develop real-world skills and knowledge about the legal profession.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly, cost is a factor.  Practice-based training is expensive, says Paul Schiff Berman, Dean and Robert Kramer Research Professor at Law, <a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">George Washington University Law School</a>.  “One of the ironies of the criticisms of law schools over the last year or two is that people are simultaneously criticizing schools for having tuitions that are too high, and at the same time criticizing schools for not offering enough practice-based training, given that the practice-based training is the most expensive training that we do, because it requires the lowest student-faculty ratio. So it is expensive to do this work, but I think it’s crucial. So, I’ve made a tremendous investment both in creating the professional development course in the first year, creating some more clinical and quasi-clinical experiences, creating a dedicated mentoring and alumni networking coordinator, and also we’ve created various programs at the back end to help students work their way into jobs and move into jobs in the public sector.”</p>
<p>Tune in to the full <a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/podcasts/EP33-LawSchoolChanges.mp3" target="_blank">show</a> to hear more!</p>
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			<itunes:subtitle> - Should we anticipate saying good-bye to the traditional law school classroom experience, famously depicted in movies, television and shared by legions of 1Ls who have endured it while learning to &quot;think like a lawyer?&quot; Not quite,</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>(http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/professor-kingsfield-the-paper-chase-200x134.jpg)

Should we anticipate saying good-bye to the traditional law school classroom experience, famously depicted in movies, television and shar...</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:author>Law School Podcaster</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:duration>30:13</itunes:duration>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Beyond Thinking Like a Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/04/beyond-thinking-like-a-lawyer/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/04/04/beyond-thinking-like-a-lawyer/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 01:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[podcasts]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>What Changes in Legal Education Mean for Law Students</p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steeped in books and theory, the traditional curriculum at most law schools hasn&#8217;t changed in decades. But the tighter job market is bringing changes &#8211; albeit a bit slowly.  Law firms, businesses, and the clients they serve, are demanding that more be done by law schools to train and prepare properly future lawyers while they are still in school.  What does this mean if you are a prospective law student? What should you be looking for to get the most innovative, practical and relevant law school experience?  We talk with law school deans, law professors and those on the front lines of developing new paths in law school to help bridge the gap from law school to law practice.<span id="more-5123"></span></p>
<p><strong>Guests</strong>:</p>
<ul>
<li>Paul Schiff Berman, Dean and Robert Kramer Research Professor at Law, <a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">George Washington University Law School</a></li>
<li>William Henderson, Professor of Law and Val Nolan Faculty Fellow; Director, Center on the Global Legal Profession, <a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a></li>
<li>Nancy Rappoport,  Gordon Silver Professor, <a href="http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html" target="_blank">University of Nevada Las Vegas William S. Boyd  School of Law</a></li>
<li>Patrick J. Lynch, Co-Founder &amp; Policy Director, <a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">Law School Transparency</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Transcript</strong>:</p>
<p>Welcome to Law School Podcaster, your source for inside information and advice on the law school application process.  I’m Althea Legaspi.  For decades now, traditional legal education has been steeped in books and theory.  But with the down economy and tight job market, changes for new lawyers and law schools are on the horizon.  While tuition costs rise for law students, clients of the nation’s law firms are resisting the traditional business model, where new lawyers learned practical skills on the client’s dime.  New lawyers are expected to perform at higher levels right out of the gate, and law schools are innovating to meet the new demands.</p>
<p>How does this affect prospective law students?  And what should <em>you</em> be seeking to make sure you get the most value from your law school experience?  We speak to those on the front lines forging new paths and bridging the gap between law school education and law school practice.  Paul Schiff Berman is the Dean of <a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">George Washington University Law School</a>.  William D. Henderson is a Professor of Law at <a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a>.  Nancy Rapoport is the Gordon Silver Professor of Law at <a href="http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html">University of Nevada Las Vegas</a>.  Patrick J. Lynch is Co-Founder and Policy Director of <a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">Law School Transparency</a>, a consumer advocacy group for law school students.  Together they provide insight on the recent measures being taken to meet the new challenges and opportunities in law school education.</p>
<p>“Schools have always had a dual role, both in providing broad-based training in deep legal thinking, reasoning by analogy, and applying law to facts in order to make multiple arguments from multiple points of view.  And at the same time, providing more actionable skills that allow lawyers to do real things in the real world immediately out of law school.  And I think with the change in the job market occasioned by the changes in the economy, there has been an increased demand that law schools be sure that they address both parts of legal education, and not only the more theoretical.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">Law School Transparency’s</a> Co-Founder and Policy Director, Patrick J. Lynch, says increased skills training is something every law school’s looking at, to improve the services they offer.  “I think for many that where they’re going to come down on that is that they have to provide some improvement in the way that they actually train people to practice law.  A good example of that is the rise of solo practitioner sort of prep courses, where they prepare people on the chance that the only option to enter the legal profession is to hang out the shingle, that schools are now offering better training, so that people can actually do that right from the get-go.  And I think that’s a great example of a really practical skill training method that is probably very necessary at a lot of law schools to do.  I think that that sort of thing, it can be very helpful, I think, looking at… we’ve spoken with a number of law schools that are working more with local attorneys to develop mentorship programs, and actually get students very early on during law school really socializing and getting to know and pursuing internships and legal work with lawyers in the community, which I think is a great way to sort of supplement the traditional in-course curriculum with the type of networking and skills training that you really need to succeed in this profession.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a> Professor William D. Henderson says additional skills training can give law school students a broader scope for future positions.  “I think that there is some usefulness towards skill training in terms of legal writing, some litigation-type training, some transactional drafting-type training.  But I also think it needs to go beyond that to focus on collaborative skills, teamwork-type skills, interpersonal skills, communication, effectiveness, trust building, listening skills.  I think that these are more transferable and are going to allow law school graduates to be effective in a variety of professional contexts, not just litigation-associated or transaction-associated at a major law firm.”</p>
<p>So, how specifically are schools executing more actionable skills training into their curricula?  Let’s start with 1L programs.  Henderson details what’s being implemented at Indiana University.  “We’ve been going down this road for the last four years.  We have a 1L legal professions class where students are put into teams, and they… it’s professional responsibility, but it’s also, in addition, satisfying that ABA requirement.  It also focuses on giving students the tools to make intelligent career decisions.  So, they learn a lot about the legal profession, they meet a lot of practicing lawyers, they… we go through a series of fairly critical readings on the legal profession.  We’re hoping that our students can, (A), find a practice setting that resonates with their values, and (B), begin to acquire the skills that are necessary to distinguish themselves in that practice context, all the while using team-based learning to learn the role of lawyering and the model roles of professional responsibility.  And it seems to be working fairly well, because we map… or we track the progress of our students on a thing called ‘Law School Survey of Student Engagement’, which allows us to see how our students are doing in a variety of outcome measures over time, and also allow us to benchmark our students against students at other law schools.  And because it’s a 1L curriculum, it makes it &#8212; which is standard throughout most law schools &#8212; it allows us to see how much progress we’re making, and I think that the early results are that we’re making progress.  And our faculty is beginning to think about, <em>what are we going to do in the second and third years to extend the competencies that we focused on in the 1L year?</em>”</p>
<p><a href="http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html">University of Las Vegas Nevada’s</a> Gordon Silver Professor, Nancy Rapoport, explains what they’ve implemented for 1Ls.  “We held about two years of faculty meetings, and we decided that it was time to give our first years at least the appearance of a choice.  So, we’re giving them a limited number of the lessons in their second semester.  We cut all of our courses to one semester, rather than two semesters.  And we’ve cut them all to no more than four hours, so that we could make room in the spring of their first year, and then that’s the equivalent time for a part-time student.  And a lesson that gives them a perspective on either how to think about statutory analysis and interpretation, or how to think about different perspectives in law so that they can do a better job of problem-solving that goes beyond reading appellate cases.  So we are going to start giving our first-year law students a limited number of choices in the last part of their first year.  And I’m excited about it.  I went to a law school where I had an elective with limited choices my second semester of the first year.  And it kind of felt nice to have some control over what I was learning.”</p>
<p>Dean Berman says their students are provided a mentor, beginning in the 1L year.  “From day one, you are given a connection to the world of practice.  So if you have an interest in a particular area when you come into law school, we are guaranteeing you from literally the time you walk in the door that you will have a mentor from practice in that area who agrees to take you out to lunch several times during your first year, let you shadow them, give you advice, and basically give you a networking experience from the get-go that you don’t even have to work to create – we create it for you.  Then, in your second year, you do a supervised externship out in the real world of practice; you do a set of courses that are designed to build off a personal pathway that has to do with what your specific interests are.  And then in the third year you do a capstone project, either a public policy project or a project with a faculty member or a clinic.  And then we connect you through a dedicated alumni networking person to someone or some group of people in practice in the particular area you’re interested in.  So, by the time you graduate, the goal is that you will have had a set of experiences, opportunities, skills, and networks that are quite distinctive to a school of our size and stature in Washington, DC.”</p>
<p>Berman adds that beginning this fall, <a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">G.W</a>. will introduce a comprehensive professional development program.  “We are working to create a comprehensive professional development program, beginning in the fall, where students in their first year will be able to both learn about areas of practice, and also be encouraged to think through skills that law schools historically have not focused on, such as, <em>how do you actually do networking?  How do you do client development?  How do you think about the economics of law practice?  How do you start your own practice, if that’s what you want to do?</em> And <em>how do you structure your thinking about what a legal career could be?</em>”</p>
<p>Externships and internships are other arenas that help provide students with more practical experience and opportunities.  Rapoport explains what students should be seeking: “As I go around the country and I help on site inspections, more and more schools are expanding their externship programs.  And here’s what I think your listeners really want to find out: First, they want to find out, <em>what sorts of things will I be doing, and how do you keep that quality control up? </em>For example, you don’t want your externs for 14 weeks to make copies of documents – you want them to draft things, or you want them to attend hearings or attend meetings.  So you want to make sure that the faculty member supervising the externship is keeping on top of who’s actually holding the externship, or the internship, so that it is possible to make sure that a person is getting a real experience.  What you want is you want the feel for working in that environment.  And if someone is not trading information with the people holding the externships, and saying, ‘You know, we really need our students to do X, Y, and Z,’ then you could have 14 weeks of making copies and collating paper, and that would be bad.  So one of the things we have our students do is they have to do a weekly journal and a weekly timesheet, and I think a lot of law schools do that.  So, I can take a look at the timesheet, I can see what they’ve been doing, I can read their journal entries, and I can make sure that they’re doing the sorts of things for which academic credit should be granted.”</p>
<p>At <a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University</a>, Henderson says externships are being actively created.  “Now that’s the source of our strategic planning process currently.  We have spent… or managed to place roughly 60 of our students in externships related to prosecution or criminal defense work.  Students have a pretty high interest in government employment, and so we’ve managed to arrange quite a few externships in that area.  In particular, we’ve got an externship in Washington where students spend a semester in Washington, focusing on government agency-type work.  And the person who runs that is the former general counsel for the EPA.  So, we’re focusing on even more of that.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">G.W.’s</a> Dean Berman explains their externship offerings.  “We provide a huge number of externship opportunities for students at the highest levels of government and public interest.  We also, in addition to clinics, are offering many opportunities for capstone experiences for students in the third year to work with think tanks, or to work with professors on testimony on Capitol Hill, or other sorts of public policy projects, advising governments abroad, things that will really force students to use their knowledge in practical ways.  And I think that schools should be constantly looking for more ways to do that.”</p>
<p>Getting real world experience while still in school is paramount.  Rapoport explains what employers are looking for the most, and your best way to meet those needs through your law school training.  “I think one of the reasons that we’re looking at skills training more in law school is that, for the people who thought they were going to go straight into large law firms, there’s been a sea change.  Large law firms aren’t hiring as much.  Clients aren’t paying for the work done by first- and second-year law students.  And so, the easy “<em>in</em>” that a lot of us thought we were going to have after we graduated from law school, you know, ‘go to a big law firm…they’ll teach you how to be a lawyer…don’t worry about it in law school’, that path is disappearing for pretty much anybody at any law school, including, you know, the 14 schools in the top five.  So, what employers really want now, more than anything else, is people who actually show they can do things that make them worth money.  And clinical legal education is the fastest way to that track.  It still takes a long time to learn how to advise a client.  But if you’ve never ever done it before you graduated from law school, it’s going to come as a real culture shock the first time you have to try to help a client solve a problem.”</p>
<p>Henderson says Indiana University is expanding on its entrepreneurship clinic, and they also currently have five active clinics.  Rapoport details <a href="http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html">UNLV’s</a> model for clinical education: “The William S. Boyd School of Law has a particularly good model for clinical legal education.  The first thing is, is that our clinical professors are, first and foremost, professors.  They write scholarship, and they practice law.  So we have what’s called the ‘clinician scholar’ model.  We don’t put them on a separate track.  We don’t think of them as second-class citizens, in part because they’re <em>not</em> second-class citizens, and because they do everything that what we call ‘podium teachers’ do, except on top of that they’re representing live clients, which means they have real deadlines, and real issues that they are facing of an immediate nature.  So, one of the things we do differently is that we don’t try to segregate our clinical professors.  They teach substantive law courses; they teach clinics.  The second thing we do is we try to keep the student-faculty ratio in clinics very, very low, so that each of our students gets an appropriate level of attention.  And then, because the student-faculty ratio of our clinics is low, a lot of students may not get into clinics, and so for them we have the robust externship program, where they are placed into judicial and legislative jobs.  They are supervised both at that office and by a faculty member.  For example, I supervise the bankruptcy extern.  And so, they can see how things are done in what we call ‘the real world’, before they actually have to get out there and deal with the real world.”</p>
<p>With law schools implementing changes to increase the value for consumers, these costs also need to be absorbed.  And practice-based training is expensive, says Berman.  “One of the ironies of the criticisms of law schools over the last year or two is that people are simultaneously criticizing schools for having tuitions that are too high, and at the same time criticizing schools for not offering enough practice-based training, given that the practice-based training is the most expensive training that we do, because it requires the lowest student-faculty ratio.  So it is expensive to do this work, but I think it’s crucial.  So, I’ve made a tremendous investment both in creating the professional development course in the first year, creating some more clinical and quasi-clinical experiences, creating a dedicated mentoring and alumni networking coordinator, and also we’ve created various programs at the back end to help students work their way into jobs and move into jobs in the public sector.”</p>
<p>How <em>are</em> law schools absorbing the costs then?  Rapoport explains: “See, the sad part about the cost of legal education is that there’s only so much a law school can do about it.  If you look at a law school’s budget, at almost every law school 95% of that budget is fixed costs.  You’ve got overhead, you’ve got salaries, benefits, library costs, the cost of running an admissions office, the cost of running a career services office, the cost of running a registrar’s office.  There’s very little room in the budget, and when state schools get budget cuts, or when private schools lose money in their investments, then the people who have to make up the difference, unfortunately, are law students, who see their tuitions go up.  So we had to increase <em>our</em> tuition pretty dramatically a few years ago when the state dropped its support dramatically.  And there’s a tough balance… you want to provide a good legal education, you want to have services available to students.  But student loans are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy; they are extremely hard to get rid of.  And law school can cost upwards of $100,000, sometimes upwards of <em>$200,000</em>.  So that’s why it’s very important for your listeners to look hard at the quality of the education they’re going to get, and the output, how well the graduates do.  David Van Zandt – he used to be the dean at Northwestern Law School – did a ballpark calculation, and he said, based on Northwestern’s tuition, if his graduates weren’t getting a job that paid at least $65,000 a year they would never pay off their loans.  And never is a really long time.  So I want your listeners to realize that a lot of the new costs in legal education…they’re paying for!  So they want to get a good bang for their buck.”</p>
<p>Given law school is an investment of both time <em>and</em> serious money, what <em>should</em> potential law students be looking for to best maximize their educational experience?  Dean Berman has this advice: “I think students should, when they’re contemplating law school, think about the set of experiences that they could have at various law schools, and how those experiences will enrich their thinking, their lives, and their skill sets.  I think often students simply look at the <em>US News</em> rankings, and assume that a school that is ranked two points higher than another school is somehow two points better than that other school.  But really, you need to think about, <em>what are the sets of experiences, opportunities, which professors, which programs, which externships, which connections to practice am I going to have at this school versus that school?</em> And it turns out that those kinds of networks, the meeting with a lawyer in practice, the externship at a major governmental agency, the connection with a large alumni network, the school that has speakers at it all the time who are people that you want to connect with…those matter so much more to your future job prospects and the fulfillment that you might have in a career, than whether you went to a school that was ranked one or two or five points higher than another school.”</p>
<p>Henderson emphasizes the importance of running the numbers as another factor for what students should consider.  “They should run the numbers to see if they really want to take on the costs, the time, and expense of law school.  Legal education is not what you do because you lack a better idea.  Because the debt is very real that you take on, and it’s a huge commitment of time, so they need to be doing their due diligence to see if law is really for them.  If it is, then they should think about the most cost-effective way or the most cost-effective opportunities for them that map onto their geographic preferences, that perhaps map onto their substantive preferences.  Corporate law pays a lot, but it doesn’t necessarily… it’s not for everyone; it’s fairly grueling.  I think that I’d like to see more people think through whether they really want to do that or not.  It’s really important to separate the realities from the images and the portrayals in the popular media.  I think that that’s key.  So some serious reflection, and going and talking to lots of people, and being sufficiently skeptical and, I think, sticking a pin to the, maybe the fantasy of what people think a legal career is, and adding some reality to it, by talking to lots of people, and questioning your assumptions.  It’s a really great career if you go into it with that mindset.”</p>
<p>One arena Lynch cites as a positive change in bridging the gap between school and practice is stipends.  “They’re usually called ‘bridge to practice programs’, where some of the top schools have been doing this for quite a long time.  But essentially, for students that aren’t able to find paid work right out of law school, but are still very interested in securing work down the road, the schools are giving out stipends.  They’re awarding various forms of grants to do either public interest work, sometimes to work in the private sector, in the idea that students can take these stipends or take these grants, and it allows them to sort of get a foot in the door somewhere where they really want to work, whether it’s in the private sector or if it’s with an NGO, or sometimes with a government agency at the state or federal level.  And it is a very effective way.  I think success rates vary in terms of how… what percentage of the graduates using these programs actually are able to translate it into fulltime legal employment at the conclusion of the grant period.  But I think it’s a very effective way, and it’s a very good response to see, on the part of the law schools, saying, you know, ‘We recognize the graduates are struggling to find work.  We want to give them every chance they can.  And if that means giving them a stipend and them getting their foot in the door somewhere, that’s really something that we should be doing.’  So we’ve seen a lot more schools pursuing this method.  And I think that part of it is it might be slightly disingenuous, because at the same time that it’s helping the graduate work for free somewhere, it’s also helping the law school boost their employment statistics.  But I think it’s still a very positive response to a very challenging job market.”</p>
<p>All our experts agree, the <a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">new requirements by the ABA for reporting accurate employment data</a>, is a step in the right direction for providing potential students more detailed information.  Dean Berman adds that those statistics should still be looked at carefully, as a job not requiring a J.D. could still put that legal training to good use.  “People thinking of coming to law school may be tempted to discount those people, assuming that those people are waiting on tables, or doing something that is really not a job that you might want to go to law school to get.  But on the other hand, that category will also include entrepreneurs who have chosen to start a business, rather than practice law, and they may be using their legal background and their legal skills every day of the rest of their career.  And currently, the new statistics wouldn’t differentiate between those kinds of jobs.  So I think it will still be important for students to look behind that data, and try to get a sense of what the opportunities are that the school that they’re looking at will really provide them.”</p>
<p>And while the poor job market and education costs are posing challenges, Henderson says this will have a positive impact on legal education and the future job market.  “There’s a real opportunity here, and I think in the next 15 to 20 years we will see major innovations in legal education.  You know, legal education hasn’t really substantially changed in the last 80 to 90 years.  But it’s just untenable to think that we’re going to continue down the traditional path.  There’s really an opportunity here to shake up the hierarchy, and change hiring patterns for graduates, based upon the value-add of three years and $150,000 worth of law school tuition.  And so it’s really an exciting time.  It’s an opportunity to do something that really, really matters, to think about the way to educate the next generation of leaders and problem solvers, you know.  So, I’m pretty excited that this turmoil that we’re going through right now is actually going to lead to innovation and checking our assumptions against, you know… assumptions for what high quality legal education really is about.”</p>
<p>The tight job market and soaring tuition costs make it more important than ever to make sound, informed, cost-effective decisions when considering a law degree.  Law schools are innovating to give you a leg up and more practical skills training, to meet the increased demands of legal employment immediately following law school.  Really seek out schools that effectively meet your career goals, and know what those are.  Look beyond traditional curriculum for strong practice-based training, as well.  Factor in how you’ll meet your debt load.  And be realistic about the challenging legal job market.  Many law schools offer opportunities to strengthen your prospects.  Make sure to choose wisely to get the most from your education.</p>
<p>For more information, a transcript of the show, or to register to receive more law school podcasts, visit <a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/">LawSchoolPodcaster.com</a>.  Look for us on <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-School-Podcaster/101552612422">Facebook</a> and <a href="http://twitter.com/#!/lawpodcaster">Twitter</a> to get the latest news and insight into the world of law school.  This is Law School Podcaster; I’m Althea Legaspi.  Thanks for listening.  And stay tuned next time, when we explore another topic of interest to help you succeed in the law school application process, and beyond.</p>
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<enclosure url="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/podcasts/EP33-LawSchoolChanges.mp3" length="14527182" type="audio/mpeg" />
			<itunes:subtitle>What Changes in Legal Education Mean for Law Students </itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Steeped in books and theory, the traditional curriculum at most law schools hasn&#039;t changed in decades. But the tighter job market is bringing changes - albeit a bit slowly.  Law firms, businesses, and the clients they serve, are demanding that more be done by law schools to train and prepare properly future lawyers while they are still in school.  What does this mean if you are a prospective law student? What should you be looking for to get the most innovative, practical and relevant law school experience?  We talk with law school deans, law professors and those on the front lines of developing new paths in law school to help bridge the gap from law school to law practice.

Guests:

	* Paul Schiff Berman, Dean and Robert Kramer Research Professor at Law, George Washington University Law School (http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx)
	* William Henderson, Professor of Law and Val Nolan Faculty Fellow; Director, Center on the Global Legal Profession, Indiana University Maurer School of Law (http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml)
	* Nancy Rappoport,  Gordon Silver Professor, University of Nevada Las Vegas William S. Boyd  School of Law (http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html)
	* Patrick J. Lynch, Co-Founder &amp; Policy Director, Law School Transparency (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/)

Transcript:

Welcome to Law School Podcaster, your source for inside information and advice on the law school application process.  I’m Althea Legaspi.  For decades now, traditional legal education has been steeped in books and theory.  But with the down economy and tight job market, changes for new lawyers and law schools are on the horizon.  While tuition costs rise for law students, clients of the nation’s law firms are resisting the traditional business model, where new lawyers learned practical skills on the client’s dime.  New lawyers are expected to perform at higher levels right out of the gate, and law schools are innovating to meet the new demands.

How does this affect prospective law students?  And what should you be seeking to make sure you get the most value from your law school experience?  We speak to those on the front lines forging new paths and bridging the gap between law school education and law school practice.  Paul Schiff Berman is the Dean of George Washington University Law School (http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx).  William D. Henderson is a Professor of Law at Indiana University Maurer School of Law (http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml).  Nancy Rapoport is the Gordon Silver Professor of Law at University of Nevada Las Vegas (http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html).  Patrick J. Lynch is Co-Founder and Policy Director of Law School Transparency (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/), a consumer advocacy group for law school students.  Together they provide insight on the recent measures being taken to meet the new challenges and opportunities in law school education.

“Schools have always had a dual role, both in providing broad-based training in deep legal thinking, reasoning by analogy, and applying law to facts in order to make multiple arguments from multiple points of view.  And at the same time, providing more actionable skills that allow lawyers to do real things in the real world immediately out of law school.  And I think with the change in the job market occasioned by the changes in the economy, there has been an increased demand that law schools be sure that they address both parts of legal education, and not only the more theoretical.”

Law School Transparency’s (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/) Co-Founder and Policy Director, Patrick J. Lynch, says increased skills training is something every law school’s looking at, to improve the services they offer.  “I think for many that where they’re going to come down on that is that they have to provide some improvement in the way that they actually train people to practice law.</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:author>Law School Podcaster</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:duration>30:13</itunes:duration>
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		<title>Applicants to Get Better Employment Data To Weigh In Choosing Law Schools</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/26/applicants-to-get-better-employment-data-to-use-in-weighing-choice-of-law-school/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/26/applicants-to-get-better-employment-data-to-use-in-weighing-choice-of-law-school/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Law school applicants hear this (sound) advice all the time:  Do your research and choose carefully when selecting a law school.  In the future, law school applicants will have better, more transparent, information to work with as they do that research. Better, though not perfect. The ABA&#8217;s law school accrediting arm will require law schools to provide more detailed employment information.  According [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-5412" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/26/applicants-to-get-better-employment-data-to-use-in-weighing-choice-of-law-school/magnifying_glass/"></a><a rel="attachment wp-att-5417" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/26/applicants-to-get-better-employment-data-to-use-in-weighing-choice-of-law-school/magnifying_glass-looking-at-data/"><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-5417" title="magnifying_glass looking at data" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/magnifying_glass-looking-at-data-200x169.png" alt="" width="200" height="169" /></a>Law school applicants hear this (sound) advice all the time:  <em><strong>Do your research and choose carefully when selecting a law school</strong></em>.  In the future, law school applicants will have <em>better, more transparent, </em>information to work with as they do that research. Better, though not perfect.</p>
<p>The ABA&#8217;s law school accrediting arm will require law schools to provide more detailed employment information.  According to Indiana University law professor William Henderson, writing on <a title="The Legal Whiteboard" href="http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legalwhiteboard/2012/03/transparency-on-employment-data-is-like-chemotherapy.html">The Legal Whiteboard</a>, &#8220;over the last 18 months, three separate ABA groups &#8212; the Questionnaire Committee, Standards Review Committee, and the Council on Legal Education &#8212; have given sincere and focused attention to the law school employment controversy. Frankly, I am in awe of the breadth and depth what they have accomplished. Going forward, prospective students will get, at a school-specific level:</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Type of Practice Setting</strong>. Law firms (#, broken down by size), business and industry, government, public interest, judicial clerkship (federal, statel, local by size), employed in academic, pursuing graduate degrees, unemployed (various types) and status unknown.</li>
<li><strong>Duration and Quality</strong>. For the first time, jobs will be broken out by: (1) full-time versus part-time, (2) long term versus short term; (3) number of law school funded jobs, (4) whether JD is required; (5) whether JD is preferred; (6) whether the job is professional or nonprofessional</li>
<li><strong>Uniform Web Reporting</strong>. All of this information, plus tuition, fees, employment data, scholarship (including renewal rates), entering student credentials, will be in a relatively standardized format on the schools&#8217; websites.&#8221;</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p>While this is a good start, Henderson writes that the ABA decision is controversial because &#8220;law schools will <strong><em>not</em></strong> be required to report any salary data (on the theory that they are too incomplete on the bad outcomes side to be reliable).&#8221;</p>
<p>Nevertheless, Henderson predicts that the new information “will give rise to a whole new rankings industry that will rival and potentially supplant U.S. News” and will allow potential students to use &#8220;hard data&#8221; to make more precise decisions.  Henderson gives the following examples of ways that applicants can weigh the new information:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Why go to a law school ranked #60 and pay twice as much when the new Employment Transparency Rankings show essentially identical employment outcomes for a lower ranked school?</li>
<li>More perniciously, why go to Law School X or Y at all when over half of their graduates routinely fail to obtain full-time legal or professional employment 9 months after graduation?</li>
<li>And the potential death blow, why should the DOE continue to fund such miserable outcomes when the U.S. taxpayers are ultimately on the hook for the bill?</li>
</ul>
<p> </p></blockquote>
<p>Henderson characterizes these new ABA industry-level transparencies as &#8220;a lot like cancer treatment: it can beat back symptoms and buy time, but it won&#8217;t necessarily cure the disease.&#8221;  For that, he says, law school educators must address &#8220;structural problems&#8221; in legal education.</p>
<p>Law School Podcaster is devoting an entire podcast to what law schools are doing to address these &#8220;structural problems.&#8221; William Henderson, of <a href="http://www.law.indiana.edu/students/index.shtml">Indiana University Maurer School of Law</a> is a guest on our upcoming show, <strong><em>Beyond Thinking Like a Lawyer: What Changes in Legal Education Mean for Students</em></strong>.  Other guests include:</p>
<ul>
<li>Patrick J. Lynch, Co-Founder &amp; Policy Director, <a href="http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/">Law School Transparency</a></li>
<li>Paul Schiff Berman, Dean and Robert Kramer Research Professor at Law, <a href="http://www.law.gwu.edu/admissions/Pages/Default.aspx">George Washington University Law School</a></li>
<li>Nancy Rappoport, Gordon Silver Professor, <a href="http://law.unlv.edu/admissions.html" target="_blank">University of Nevada Las Vegas William S. Boyd School of Law</a></li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p>Stay tuned for the show!</p>
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		<title>The Law School Rankings Shuffle</title>
		<link>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/13/the-law-school-rankings-shuffle/</link>
		<comments>http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/13/the-law-school-rankings-shuffle/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Law School Podcaster</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/?p=5343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The U. S. News &#38; World Report &#8220;Best Law Schools 2013&#8243; is out &#8211; and there&#8217;s a bit of shuffling around in some of the top spots and a few big jumps elsewhere. Yale remains ranked #1 (holding the spot since 1990), Stanford moves up to the #2 spot (from #3) and Harvard moves to #3 (Harvard [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-5348" href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2012/03/13/the-law-school-rankings-shuffle/usn-logo/"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-5348" title="usn-logo" src="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/usn-logo.png" alt="" width="192" height="54" /></a></p>
<p>The <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings" target="_blank">U. S. News &amp; World Report &#8220;Best Law Schools 2013&#8243;</a> is out &#8211; and there&#8217;s a bit of shuffling around in some of the top spots and a few big jumps elsewhere.</p>
<p>Yale remains ranked #1 (holding the spot since 1990), Stanford moves up to the #2 spot (from #3) and Harvard moves to #3 (Harvard held the #2 spot since 2007 and Stanford had jointly held the #2 spot with Harvard in 2008 and 2009).</p>
<p>There was also some shuffling within the Top 14 (T14).  According to a U.S. News <a href="http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2012/03/13/in-2013-best-law-school-rankings-top-schools-switch-spots" target="_blank">post</a>:  &#8220;The <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-california-berkeley-03016">University of California—Berkeley School of Law</a> and the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-virginia-03162">University of Virginia School of Law</a> both moved up two spots to tie with the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-pennsylvania-03140">University of Pennsylvania Law School</a> for 7th, while the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-school-03082">University of Michigan—Ann Arbor Law School</a> slid from 7th to 10th; <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-school-03105">Cornell Law School</a>, now ranked 14th, and the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/georgetown-university-03032">Georgetown Law Center</a>, at 13th, switched spots from last year&#8217;s list.&#8221;</p>
<p>Other notable news includes:</p>
<ul>
<li>After one year in the T14, the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-texas-austin-03155">University of Texas—Austin School of Law</a>, fell two spots to 16th in the rankings for 2013.</li>
<li>The Arizona State University <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/arizona-state-university-o%27connor-03003">Sandra Day O&#8217;Connor College of Law</a>leapt to the 26th spot, up 14 spots from 40th last year, following a 15-spot jump from 55th two years before that.</li>
<li>Last year&#8217;s five-way tie for 30th dissolved in the 2013 rankings as the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-washington-03167">University of Washington School of Law</a>moved 10 spots to 20th.</li>
<li><a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03039">Emory University School of Law</a> and the <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/washington-and-lee-university-03163">Washington and Lee University School of Law</a>both jumped six spots and remain tied at 24th.</li>
<li>The <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/pepperdine-university-03011">Pepperdine University School of Law</a> moved five spots to crack the top 50 (from 54th to 49th).</li>
<li>The <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-miami-03038">University of Miami School of Law</a> jumped eight spots, from 77th last year to 69th in the 2013 rankings.</li>
</ul>
<p> </p>
<p>Here are the <a title="top 10-ranked" href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings">top 20-ranked</a> law schools:</p>
<p>1) Yale University</p>
<p>2) Stanford University</p>
<p>3) Harvard University</p>
<p>4) Columbia University</p>
<p>5) University of Chicago</p>
<p>6) New York University</p>
<p>7) University of California at Berkeley, University of Pennsylvania, University of Virginia (tied)</p>
<p>10) University of Michigan at Ann Arbor</p>
<p>11) Duke University Law School</p>
<p>12) Northwestern Law School</p>
<p>13) Georgetown Law School</p>
<p>14) Cornell Law School</p>
<p>15) UCLA Law School</p>
<p>16) University of Texas, Austin, Vanderbilt (tied)</p>
<p>18) University of Southern California, Gould</p>
<p>19) University of Minnesota, Twin Cities</p>
<p>20) George Washington University Law School</p>
<p>So, what do the numbers really mean?  Hear directly from Robert Morse, Director of Data Research for U. S. News &amp; World Report in our podcast, <a href="http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/2010/09/22/law-school-rankings/" target="_blank">Law School Rankings: What Do the Numbers Mean?</a></p>
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			<itunes:subtitle> - The U. S. News &amp; World Report &quot;Best Law Schools 2013&quot; is out - and there&#039;s a bit of shuffling around in some of the top spots and a few big jumps elsewhere. - Yale remains ranked #1 (holding the spot since 1990),</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>(http://www.lawschoolpodcaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/usn-logo.png)

The U. S. News &amp; World Report &quot;Best Law Schools 2013&quot; (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings) is out - and there&#039;s a bit of shuffling around in some of the top spots and a few big jumps elsewhere.

Yale remains ranked #1 (holding the spot since 1990), Stanford moves up to the #2 spot (from #3) and Harvard moves to #3 (Harvard held the #2 spot since 2007 and Stanford had jointly held the #2 spot with Harvard in 2008 and 2009).

There was also some shuffling within the Top 14 (T14).  According to a U.S. News post (http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2012/03/13/in-2013-best-law-school-rankings-top-schools-switch-spots):  &quot;The University of California—Berkeley School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-california-berkeley-03016) and the University of Virginia School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-virginia-03162) both moved up two spots to tie with the University of Pennsylvania Law School (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-pennsylvania-03140) for 7th, while the University of Michigan—Ann Arbor Law School (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-school-03082) slid from 7th to 10th; Cornell Law School (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-school-03105), now ranked 14th, and the Georgetown Law Center (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/georgetown-university-03032), at 13th, switched spots from last year&#039;s list.&quot;

Other notable news includes:

	* After one year in the T14, the University of Texas—Austin School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-texas-austin-03155), fell two spots to 16th in the rankings for 2013.
	* The Arizona State University Sandra Day O&#039;Connor College of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/arizona-state-university-o%27connor-03003)leapt to the 26th spot, up 14 spots from 40th last year, following a 15-spot jump from 55th two years before that.
	* Last year&#039;s five-way tie for 30th dissolved in the 2013 rankings as the University of Washington School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-washington-03167)moved 10 spots to 20th.
	* Emory University School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/school-of-law-03039) and the Washington and Lee University School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/washington-and-lee-university-03163)both jumped six spots and remain tied at 24th.
	* The Pepperdine University School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/pepperdine-university-03011) moved five spots to crack the top 50 (from 54th to 49th).
	* The University of Miami School of Law (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-miami-03038) jumped eight spots, from 77th last year to 69th in the 2013 rankings.

 

Here are the top 20-ranked (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings) law schools:

1) Yale University

2) Stanford University

3) Harvard University

4) Columbia University

5) University of Chicago

6) New York University

7) University of California at Berkeley, University of Pennsylvania, University of Virginia (tied)

</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:author>Law School Podcaster</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:duration>18:56</itunes:duration>
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